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"Make no mistake - I wanted to believe freespire was going to be 'linspire doing the right thing' but all I can say now is 'same old, same old'!"

You're full of it mate. You take a pop at Linspire/Freespire every change you get.

You submitted this and I bet you were rubbing your hands in glee at yet another opportunity to be the sour grape in the bunch.

So what. The distowatch rankings are a scam anyways. There are so many things wrong with their method of gathering information that any statistics that they derive from the data is worthless. If you want an example of how worthless it is check out where Redhat is on distowatch. Comin' in at 29, right behind Nexenta and Frugalware. 'Cause we all know that no one uses Redhat. It is not even in the top ten amongst Linux distributions.

If you really want to see what Linux distributions are popular it would be better to check out Alexa or Google Trends.

Edited 2006-09-05 21:00

Bingo

Even Ladislav of Distrowatch says emphatically to not put any stock in their hit rankings.

But yet we have this big to-do about the ethics of Freespire's linking into their page on Distrowatch.

<sarcasm>
STOP THE PRESSES!!!! FREESPIRE IS BALLOT STUFFING!!! SHAME ON THEIR LACK OF ETHICS!!!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!!! LINSPIRE IS EVIL!!!
</sarcasm>

C'mon. Let's have a more important argument, like, say, the names of Snow White's seven dwarves, or the color of Tiger Woods' shirt during the PGA, or something.

No originally he claimed complete ignorance and until all the others were pointed out...well he let the mob attack and poke fun so he could come in with his smoke and mirrors and clear it all up.

I mean come on.... the LINSPIRE PROUD LEAD SPONSOR button on the NVU website goes to distrowatch?

Edited 2006-09-04 18:43

exactly... me three

I would ask if you read the thread.... Since you obviously got it wrong also.

DeanLinkous is the one who it wrong and has done nothing but try to hurt the Freespire project since he arrived there with all his negativity, accusations, etc. He has absolutely no credibility.

Yeah, because if they *had* been intentionally trying to stuff the ballot, Kevin Carmony would of course be disinterested and impartial enough to cheerfully admit this fact. The fact that he instead says it was some kind of honest mistake on the part of a nameless, faceless employee proves beyond doubt that it wasn't an attempt to stuff the ballot.

Great sarcasm there!

Well, it's rather like when a dictator fixes an election. (Not that I'm comparing distrowatch to a dictator, by the way.) Nobody really trusts the results of an election run by a dictator, but when the dictator wins 95 or 97% of the vote, it's taken as an indication of (a) how far the dictator is willing to go to "prove himself"; and (b) how far out of touch he is that he can quite happily quote himself as having 95% of the vote. I don't know about you, but I'm sceptical of ever being able to get 95% of any group anywhere to agree on [i]anything.

...First Steve Irwin dies

Completely off-topic, but with my blessing: yes, indeed, that was damn horrible news this morning . I'm a huge fan of Steve Irwin. I wrote about it on my blog:

http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2006/09/04/381/

Any truth to the rumour Elton John is re-writing a song for him?

"is weird how that link could have gotten there"

not one link!
one default home page of the browser on new installs
a link from the linspire website
a button and a link from the NVU website
a couple other links

The links were not just a "click here to go to distrowatch and throw us a bone" but where instead deceiving links that stated GET FRESPIRE or LINSPIRE - PROUD LEAD SPONSOR and so forth...

Edited 2006-09-04 19:15

"However, in over Five years Linspire has NEVER been involved with or accused of something like this. (Which is pretty apparent, because Linspire has always been very low on the DistroWatch charts. =) When it happened this one time with Freespire project, the links were immediately removed. "


So it's only wrong if you get caught?


FTA:Several readers have emailed us to let us know that Linspire has launched what can only be classified as an attempt to tamper with our page hit ranking statistics by trying to artificially inflate the page hit ranking figures for its new community distribution - Freespire.

"Several readers" Obviously you didn't RTFA either.

Edited 2006-09-04 19:29

Linspire never did it in five years. Our abysmal chart position that we've always had on DistroWatch makes that pretty clear. =)

Kevin

Mr Carmony,

Whether or not someone else does it is completely irrelevant to the issue. Basically everybody does some speeding in his life (and in Europe, it's more of a rule than an exception, actually), but that does not actually make it right. I speed a lot too (I like things that go fast), but you will not hear me complain when in an honest way, I get caught. I sure as hell will not try to cover my behind by saying, "oh who cares, everybody does it, so it really is not wrong". Because it is.

Now, Like I said in a previous comment, I really don't care about this at all-- Heck, even if Freespire hacked the Distrowatch page and put Freespire atop the rankings, I still would not give a damn. Even though I'm not a user of Lin/Freespire, I find it a very solid, well-built distribution (I reviewed 5.0 at my previous employer, a copy supplied by your press dpt.), and this issue won't change a bit about that. I try to seperate people/companies from products (just like the fact that many celebreties are idiots does not make their films/albums/etc. any worse), because I have to deal with not the people/companies, but the products they make.

However, that does not negate the fact that this thing happened, and since you guys are 'teh 3vil' to many anyway, it is just plain STUPID. No, worse-- it is MORONIC, at the same time being outragiously hilarious-- no offence.

The reason I, as editor, decided to publish a link to this on OSNews, is that many people DO care about the companies making the products they are using. I belong to a minority; the majority of our readership cares about the companies/people behind their products; hence I want to inform them of any good/bad things those companies/people do.

In short, the fact you addmited the error is great, and I applaud that; however, do not try to lessen the 'offence' by pointing fingers. It just isn't very posh.

EDIT: typo fixes.

Edited 2006-09-04 19:49

Get a f*ing grip already! What is it about *spire that makes people react like this?

So the fact that other distros have "cheated" too does not excuse Freespire. Alright. Then why has Freespire been singled out in this case? Why not critizise all the distros that have cheated?

BTW, i am using Ubuntu right now, but i am tempted to switch to Freespire just to spite all you hypocrites!

Never heard of this happening before; which distros have been guilty of it?

The one time I want to mod Thom up, I see the + and - buttons are there but still don't work.

Only moderators can mod the moderators (or something like that) - or I'd mod his post up too.

Never mind - you can mod up Kevin Carmony if you really want to - Oh no you can't, all his posts seem to be on 5 already, so they must be wonderfully true

Now now.... is that ALL he said? You should know I would post the rest as well.

Here are my favorite parts of that SAME POST as well

"Somebody at Linspire decided to sent some traffic to DistroWatch (which was a very noble idea), probably in order to drive Freespire up the page hit ranking stats (which was _not_ a very noble idea),"

"Kevin is also wrong in assuming that these are all innocent re-directions that have nothing to do with the page hit statistics on DistroWatch. As a matter of fact, each hit from a unique IP address is recorded as a hit, irrespective of the referrer (unless there is no referrer, in which case the hit is not counted - this is to make sure that no hits are generated by those who set up their home pages to one of the distribution pages on DistroWatch). So while setting up the default home page on Freespire to DistroWatch had no effect on the counter, linking to DistroWatch from linspire.com and nvu.com did increase the page hits considerably"

"The current Freespire issue looks to me as an obvious attempt to manipulate the DistroWatch page hit ranking. Several people have confirmed that the default home page on the most recent build of Freespire goes to the Freespire page on DistroWatch. The front page of Linspire.com links to the same page with a "Get Freespire Now" graphic (even as I write this, despite Kevin's assurances above that this has been rectified) - a rather deceiving redirection. There is a similarly deceiving graphic on nvu.com. I might be wrong, but the above suggests that this is hardly a mistake, but rather a concerted effort to increase the Freespire page hit ranking on DistroWatch.

smooooke and mirrrors....

That's why I posted the link to "all he said."

Paranoia will destroy ya. =)

Kevin

Please take the cheesy cliche's and smart ass comments back to your own forums. I for one am a bit disgusted by the fact that the freaking ceo of Linspire still does not fully grasp that this is not a joke, but a serious breech of ethics.


Nevermind, I forgot you guys don't know anything about ethics. You ARE the ceo of the same company that took Mozilla Composer, rebadged it as NVU and then pretended like you built it completely from scratch. Yes, the last comment was completely off-topic but if you're going to come over here and act stupid by sticking your ass into the fire with no credible comments, you might as well get burned.

Um, NVu is a good thing. Nuff said.

Yes that word is a favorite of them also. Anyone that doesn't have blue/green flags are trolls.

Anyone that knows me also knows that I gave a fair shot at freespire and spread the word that CNR was free and a step in the right direction and one I hoped would continue. I truly meant that! You blew it not me! Go ahead shovel all the blame over to me....oh it is all that deanlinkous doing, that evil troll making us look bad. No dude YOU made yourself loook bad nobody else!

Edited 2006-09-04 19:37

keep in mind i am not just a freespire supporter... I support several projects.. i use several distros... i contribute cash/code/resources and positive helpful discussion when i can. what do you contribute besides projecting a bad impression of Linux to the public ? (not just freespire... since this reflects not only on Freespire but also it reflects on Linux for those who are potentially thinking of switching)
btw:
did i ever say anything about an elitist snob being upset because Freespire/Linspire is trying to make Linux easy to use ?
Perhaps i have... please refresh my memory

Edited 2006-09-04 19:43

Yeah, the Linux community coming down on someone for possibly being overzealous. Now we've heard it all.

You speak as if "the Linux community" were made up of clones. It's not.

Since the general feel of the Linux posters here is the Linspire/Freespire is a Bad Thing; that must mean they are doing something right.

Umm, no. A lot of Linux users might not like Linspire because they feel their distribution is trying to be something Linux isn't, and/or because it includes proprietary software, but that is WAY different from disagreeing with ballot stuffing. If that's "doing something right," which dictator is YOUR hero?

The stallmanites that infest the OSNews boards also hold OS X and BeOS in great contempt

Am I a Stallmanite? Yes. Do I hold OS X OR BeOS in contempt? No.

and I personally think both are fantastic and both are ahead of Linux in MANY aspects This tells me Linspire may actually be worth looking into.

This tells us your reasoning is faulty.

Linux user around these parts tend to feel threatened when a perceived competitor shows superiority in some/any aspect over their distro-of-choice.


No, but we don't hesitate to call bullshit on posts such as this.

"kernelpanicked, are you really this much of an ass off the forums, or is a persona you put on to satisfy some need?"

Hey LinuxUser2006, take a breather bro OR sis.

This is just a minor disturbance in the vast expanse that is "Reality."

I personally just thought Kevins "microsoft statement" was pretty poor at best, thats why I responded.

All in all, I don't really care much, freespires image doesnt really matter to me that much, but they do seem to be getting pounded on quite a bit. And I can't say that all of it is unwarranted.

Edited because (bro/sis) is a me implying dual gender, that was not my intent. Bad, jdodson, bad Ahh the joys of way too fast typing.

Edited 2006-09-04 22:42

"kernelpanicked, are you really this much of an ass off the forums, or is a persona you put on to satisfy some need?"

Says said troll whose account goes all the way back to today and has a total of 3 posts, all on this thread.

jdodson,your statement was so poor, I literally shook my head in disbelief that you actually made it.

"EDIT: BTW you guys should check the end of that thread again. They basically came ot the conclusion that anyone who drifts from the Kevin Carmont curcle jerk should get out, and then locked the thread. "

As the one who locked said thread, I can say that your statement is the furthest thing from the truth. There was an issue brought up by a member of the forums, it was resolved in less than 24 hours (on a holiday weekend, no less) by the CEO of Linspire.... and that was that.

We are trying to build a friendly, helpful community at Freespire, and the thread was obviously degenerating to the point that the "dead horse" was beaten over and over again. There were NO more useful points or couterpoints given, since the "problem" was solved, so I locked the thread. If you don't like that... that's cool by me. I don't really care one way or the other what you think of me, but don't put words or actions about me from YOUR mouth, as you obviously don't know.

And yes... I registered here to be able to post, and this is my first post... I freely admit. However, no animals were hurt during the composition of this post... ;-)

Harvey

"As the one who locked said thread, I can say that your statement is the furthest thing from the truth. There was an issue brought up by a member of the forums, it was resolved in less than 24 hours (on a holiday weekend, no less) by the CEO of Linspire.... and that was that. "

You people keep saying the issue is a "dead horse". How is that remotely true when this is less than 24 hours old and, there still has not been a satisfactory response from kevin. "Everyone else does it" just won't cut it. I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. All one has to do to verify my previous comment is look at the thread themselves.

" How is that remotely true when this is less than 24 hours old and, there still has not been a satisfactory response from kevin."

That is YOUR opinion. Kevin had ALL the links changed when he found out about it... done deal, story finished... dead horse.

As I said, if YOU don't like it... that's cool by me. I'll loose a whole pico seconds worth of sleep over it tonight.

Harvey