Linked by David Adams on Mon 10th Mar 2008 03:40 UTC, submitted by SReilly
Law and Order Microsoft Corp. on Friday asked that a lawsuit claiming it duped consumers in a Windows Vista marketing program be suspended while the company appeals a judge's decision to grant the case class-action status. If granted, the motion would also postpone any new disclosures of potentially embarrassing company e-mails. Last month, the release of similar documents showed that top-level company executives struggled with the new operating system on machines labeled "Vista Capable," and that partners such as Dell Inc. warned Microsoft that the campaign would confuse consumers.
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No reason ...
by WorknMan on Mon 10th Mar 2008 04:02 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

Wright also contended that because the plaintiffs will have to do a national search for consumers who can join the class action, Microsoft might get a black eye for no reason.


No reason, hmmmm. Even if you didn't intentionally mislead consumers (which in itself is debatable), some of your partners warned you ahead of time that it was going to confuse the hell out of them. So if you weren't dishonest, you deserve to be slapped around a little bit for being stupid.

And since you have about as many versions of Vista as I have underwear, I'm sure that didn't help much either.

RE: No reason ...
by SReilly on Mon 10th Mar 2008 07:53 UTC in reply to "No reason ..."
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

Well said.

Reading through the already published emails, it quite easy to see that MS was well aware of the problem. But instead of giving their customers the right information, they chose to help out Intel instead. If that is not deserving of a black eye, I don't know what is.

I, for one, will be going back to pirating MS software cause this is the last time I pay for such shoddy service.

RE[2]: No reason ...
by Kroc on Mon 10th Mar 2008 07:59 UTC in reply to "RE: No reason ..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I for one will continue buying /alternative/ software to Microsoft products, and not resort to pirating - and thus supporting the adoption, use, acceptance and proliferation of Microsoft and Windows technologies.

You're a muppet if you think pirating Windows is 'sticking it to the man'.

RE[3]: No reason ...
by SReilly on Mon 10th Mar 2008 08:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No reason ..."
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

I think you've got me all wrong.

I have been using both proprietary and open source software for a long time (due to being an avid gamer, and don't come at me with Cedega!), although I never had the money to pay for a version of Windows. In fact, the first OS I actually paid money for was Mandrake.

When Vista came out, I thought it was about time to actually paid MS for an OS instead of pirating it. Considering just how much of their software I have used over the years, I think it was only fair.

How wrong was I? Not only have a p*ssed about €400 down the drain, I also find out that the software doesn't do what it says on the tin.

Muppet? me? your god dam right I am! (or at least feeling that way!) I'm going strait back to piracy for my next PC gaming platform!

RE[4]: No reason ...
by Kroc on Mon 10th Mar 2008 08:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Fool me once - shame on you;
Fool me twice - shame on me!

If you've been burned by Windows, 'don't go back to it' would be the sensible choice!

Dual boot your copy of Vista with Linux, and use Vista just for gaming and put up with the direness for now as SP1 will be out soon enough, and all PC gaming will be on Vista eventually as XP is in the process of being discontinued. New games are going to be increasingly Vista/DX10 only and that's just the facts of PC gaming.

I got out of PC gaming and switched to consoles and independent/multi-platform games. I think the last PC game I bought is Black & White 2, and the only one I see myself buying is Spore, but for the Mac. ;)

RE[4]: No reason ...
by kaiwai on Mon 10th Mar 2008 10:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I think you've got me all wrong.

I have been using both proprietary and open source software for a long time (due to being an avid gamer, and don't come at me with Cedega!), although I never had the money to pay for a version of Windows. In fact, the first OS I actually paid money for was Mandrake.


Well, I don't want to turn this into a platform war, but I have to ask; what games are you playing and why don't you just get a console and a really good television? for me, I purchased a MacBook, and for my games (I love old school arcade games) I have a Nintendo Wii.

You're better off just doing the same.

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

As a gamer since before Internet Killed the BBs Scene (you can guess the tune), I feel your grief all too well. Gaming is the only thing keeping a Windows boot on my workstation these days. Until recently, gaming was the benchmark for each new system build because anything that could push a modern game would likely have no trouble with the other 95% of how I explore the true limites beyond manufacturer's intended use. Unless game developers pull MS thumb out of there collective @'s, it's likely I'll eventually have too obtain a license for Vista. I hope by that time, either DX10 is released for winXP or game developers realize the untapped market that is nonMS platform gamers.

Even as a gamer since Jet Fighter, Usurper and LORD where cutting edge, I have to agree with the first reponse too your comment though; you only feed the monster by stealing it's wares (note the lack of "z"). Microsoft used to happily turn a blind eye too personal piracy while laughing all the way to the bank. It was a key business strategy used to optain the market share they now abuse. I suspect that they still do as much as they can without making it obvious; the proffit loss is probably even included as an expense under the marketing budget.

You have a Vista license and probably a working, if not legal, copy of winXP so your all set for the forseable future. Heck, even with current games, winXP is still the better platform and, ironicaly, the thinnest layer of crap you can put between your hardware and your game. (Crysis may require me to have DX10 with the next hardware build, sadly.)

The better way is to vote loudly with your wallet. Show the game developers that hocking there wares (again, no "z") outside of the MS platform is worth there while; email, write and ask when the release for XYZ will be available.

I also might point out that your comment provides MS enough reason to come asking for a license audit. I'm sure someone there reads this site daily as part of there job.

You only feed the monster and promote it's abismal business practices by helping to spread it's crapware and retain it's market share. Ironically, you do so by speaking it's own language too.

Just my two cents, since you made it an internationally public discussion.

RE[4]: No reason ...
by jboss1995 on Mon 10th Mar 2008 19:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
jboss1995 Member since:
2007-05-02

Don't lower yourself to Microsoft level.

RE[3]: No reason ...
by daedliusswartz on Mon 10th Mar 2008 08:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No reason ..."
daedliusswartz Member since:
2007-05-28

You're a muppet if you think pirating Windows is 'sticking it to the man'.

Why is that?

RE[4]: No reason ...
by Kroc on Mon 10th Mar 2008 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Just look at China. A complete Windows monopoly, and nobody pays for the software! They have dug themselves into a hole whereby IE has a complete monopoly and *has* to be used to do any kind of secured online work like banking. This has massive economic impact as it kills innovation. For all the security holes and problems with Windows, China can do nothing. Great products like Firefox that have changed the online world for millions, cannot take hold in China.

Had the Chinese run with Linux 10 years ago, instead of pirating Windows, then they would have a system that they could adapt to meet their economic and cultural needs and problems could be rectified at the core instead of trying to patch on top of Windows. Innovation would be much more buoyant by having the country running on a system anybody could improve and contribute to.

RE[4]: No reason ...
by Soulbender on Mon 10th Mar 2008 09:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Why is that?


Because it increases their market penetration. How'd you think they got as big as they are? Software sales? No way Jose, rampant piracy helped MS become what they are today.

RE[4]: No reason ...
by sbergman27 on Mon 10th Mar 2008 13:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No reason ..."
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Why is that?


Because Microsoft would *far* prefer that you pirate Windows than to use an OS which is not Windows. The overwhelming desktop mindshare that they command is their most valuable asset. It's the foundation upon which their monopoly stands.

Piracy of Windows and Windows applications is arguably the most powerful force holding back the adoption of FOSS. So if you *are* pirating it, you'd better not let me know. Because I'll be on the phone to the BSA in a minute. And I'll bet I'm not the only one around here who feels that way.

If you are going to use software... and I don't care if it's Windows, Mac, Linux, *BSD or whatever... respect the license terms and play by the rules.

Edited 2008-03-10 13:45 UTC

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Historically, theft of there products for home use was a big help in gaining the market share they now have. Dos was handed from one person to another and while MS publicly denounced it, they had to be laughing too the bank while watching there market grow. Office, sure they sold it to businesses but the stolen installs on personal machines was a big part in solidifying there dominant place. Windows, yeah, it got handed around plenty.

What of Mr. Gates letter to the homebrew club? €What you do when you share software is theft.€ Sure, it denounced the sharing of software and free ideas so that MS could create a new market (hardware was the product at the time). It also provided great publicity for the young and failing software company when it was still trying to get noticed. Conflict is second only to sex if you want advertising and attention from the news media.

Now that they have a solid market base here, they scream and denounce piracy while including ever more draconian but useless safe guards against it. How loudly are they denouncing piracy in markets where they are still trying to gain a foothold? They didn't start making noise in China until after Windows was widely installed. They cut the cost of a Windows (3rd world edition) license in India as a direct result of loosing market share to better alternatives. I'm sure they would have sat quietly waiting for the illegal copies to grow it's market share before moving in otherwise.

One can call MS many things (I do) but one can't question there strength in marketing, business strategy and litigation. They new full well the value of complaining just enough about product theft to save face while allowing it to spread there roots out under whatever market they where going after.

Theft of windows only helps increase there market share and potential for publicity in the news as the victim. In the end, it is just another way of promoting there shoddy product quality and abusive business practices.

RE[2]: No reason ...
by tomcat on Mon 10th Mar 2008 22:19 UTC in reply to "RE: No reason ..."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I, for one, will be going back to pirating MS software cause this is the last time I pay for such shoddy service.


Non-sequitor. How is the Vista-capable marketing campaign even related to your whine of "such shoddy service?"

Two Versions
by systyrant on Mon 10th Mar 2008 14:31 UTC
systyrant
Member since:
2007-01-18

Windows for the desktop and Windows for the server.

That would have been a much better start. Then not caving into the need to sell more hardware would have made this lawsuit not even a thought.

jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

sorry for the freaking huge posts in this one all. It's a topic that's come up too many times to count and one that seems to hit a neurve.